The Real Whistleblower Behind The Social Reckoning and the Actor Who Played Her on Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, and AI

The Social Network helped define a generation of tech founders when it premiered in 2010: Written by Aaron Sorkin, it tells the story of Facebook’s founding by an ambitious, jilted college kid who imposes his will on the world. Now, in The Social Reckoning, Sorkin focuses on the ills of the company Facebook eventually became. He tells the story through the lens of Frances Haugen, a former employee who demonstrated through a trove of internal documents, leaked to the Wall Street Journal, that Facebook’s algorithm was stoking political division, that Instagram was contributing to body-image issues for teen girls, and that the company’s platforms were being used by drug dealers and human traffickers. CEO Mark Zuckerberg has denied his company, rebranded as Meta after Haugen’s leak, prioritized profit over safety. Mikey Madison, fresh off her Oscar for Anora, plays Haugen in the film. Madison and Haugen sat with TIME for their first interview together.

Mikey, you and Frances have not had the opportunity to spend a lot of time together. How much is the Frances of the film based on the real Frances?

Madison: When I got the script, I knew about the Facebook Files, but I didn’t know Frances’ name. So I looked her up, and I was like, “She’s blonde and has blue eyes. Why does Aaron want me for this?” And he said, “I want you to try and build the character from my script.” But of course I read her memoir and tried to do my due diligence because there was so much I didn’t understand. I don’t have a personal relationship with social media at all.

Is there a reason you don’t have social media?

Madison: It’s just something that never quite stuck. It’s something I never felt I could understand. When I was 13, I had an Instagram, but it kind of lived and died at that time and not for any particular reason or self-preservation.

Frances, Aaron reached out to you about the script.

Haugen: I first met Aaron a few months after I came forward as a whistleblower, and he wanted to figure out if it was possible to do a companion piece to The Social Network. After my memoir came out, he came back to me with this heavily underlined, sticky-noted, dog-eared copy.

He writes notoriously fast-talking characters. Mikey, how did you prep for the Sorkin rhythm?

Madison: I don’t know if much can prepare you for that. I’m not someone who naturally speaks in that rhythmic way. I don’t know anyone who does, except for maybe Aaron. It’s singular to his sensibilities as a screenwriter. I keep joking that Aaron has this internal stopwatch in his head. Every period, every comma is incredibly intentional, and the space between is timed, and we’re on a deadline. The first day on set, after seven or eight takes, he came in and was like, ‘OK, we’re starting to cook with a bit of gas here.’

Haugen: That’s hard.

Madison: But I also think it created a certain intensity.

Haugen: There’s a fidelity to it. [Wall Street Journal reporter] Jeff [Horwitz] and I are both chatty people who talk quickly, so you do capture the excitement of when we were in the weeds.

Meta reached an $18 billion settlement in August, ending a multi-state lawsuit that alleged it got teens hooked on social media while jeopardizing their mental health. Meta did not admit to any wrongdoing. Is the settlement enough?

Haugen: We’re only in the first chapter of the settlements. We still have two major sets of settlements to go just in the United States. The school districts are bringing very large suits, which I’m expecting to have dollar values north of $100 billion, maybe $200 billion. And then we have the individual kids and family lawsuits. So far, we’ve only had one resolve, but it was $6 million to a single person. When you apply that across kids in the United States, you only need a fraction of 1% [of that amount], and it adds up to a trillion dollars.

Why do you think Mark Zuckerberg made the choices that put the company in this position?

Haugen: Mark is in a unique psychological circumstance in that there are very few founders in Silicon Valley who have the level of control he has at the scale he has...I think he’s just been isolated for so long it’s distorted his priorities.

Jeremy Strong, who plays Mark, went method on set and isolated himself from the rest of the cast. What was that like?

Madison: I had less than half a day to work with him. We had one scene, but I was almost a background actor. I hope to be able to work with him in the future. His process is intriguing to me as an actress. The result is obviously very special.

Frances, you’ve testified that Meta, in your view, prioritized growth over consumer safety. Do you think we’re at a similar inflection point with AI companies, where the need to grow is at odds with what’s good for us?

Haugen: I think you can square the circle on capitalism and what is good for us. Five years ago, people in the United States used Instagram and Facebook more than they do today. And part of that is because Meta over-optimized for the short term instead of the long term. When you see unpleasant content, when you see AI slop and bullying and more ads, you’re less likely to use the product. Governance helps businesses make choices that optimize for the long term, which actually makes them more profitable long-term. So capitalism doesn’t have to be in conflict with safety. When it comes to AI, part of what makes it hard is the rate of change. I’m hopeful we’re going to have one or two more scary incidents, and then we’re going to be like, “Maybe we should do something sensible.”

When you spoke to my colleague Billy Perrigo for a TIME cover story five years ago, you talked about how you almost died before working at Facebook. You told him, “I think it really changes your priorities when you’ve almost died. Once you’ve overcome your fear of death anything is possible.” Can you talk about that experience and how you feel about that being omitted from the movie as a motivation for the character?

Haugen: I went from someone who could ride 125 miles a day on a bike to being in a wheelchair in two and a half years. One day my leg turned blue and it turned out that I had a foot-long clot the girth of a cigar in my leg, and they had to do surgery multiple times. Unfortunately while I was in the hospital I had an allergic reaction to the blood thinner. During that time, I went through my worst fears. I lost my job because they thought I was faking being sick. My husband left me. I lost my health. And I came back from it. So I do feel that phase of my life changed my ability to take risks. In terms of the movie, Aaron Sorkin did a miraculous thing: He made typing at a computer compelling for two hours. But you have to make choices. I think he chose to focus on the things that would give us the most insight into not just my experience but how Facebook and Mark work.

Anything you want to ask each other?

Haugen: Do you think Mark is going to watch the movie?

Madison: I do. How do you feel about that?

Haugen: My hope is that he watches the movie and sees Jeremy Strong’s performance and asks himself, “Do I want to be living this life? Is this the legacy that I want?” Because sometimes you can’t see it in the mirror until art reflects it.